There are no easy answers when it comes to grade retention, and experts are divided on whether repeating kindergarten is more likely to lead to long-term benefit or deficit. As a result, the repeating-kindergarten phenomenon has become relatively commonplace. Not anymore. According to his teacher they wont hold them back until 3d grade! The data also suggests that in spite of having all these resources and manpower, kids who repeat kindergarten dont do as well as their first or second grade classmates once they make it into those grades. As a teacher, I have seen many students struggle as they are younger and immature compared to their cohort. Because of COVID, there will be many children who are betwixt and between. Get in touch! His kindergarten teacher wants to keep him back next year. Going back to the blending.. he know all the alphabet and every sound. Some kids just need more time to develop. Many of them suggest parents seek independent evaluation for specific developmental delays and then, if the results warrant it, spend time in occupational therapy over the summer to try to catch up. Same boat here. But generally, if the school wants your child to go ahead, thats what will happen. End of February 2018 i am in my sons class room speakin with his teacher bout his academics and as she informs me he has reading problems along with speech problems and now all of a sudden needs little more assistance so i explained that i want him to be in a reading/speech class to help keep him on track(my oldest son goes for speech and ready every week) and if she can send home words and reading material he needs more help with to go over each day at home, waiting and calling and writing comments in his planner on where the work is he needs little more improvement with is at doesnt show up home until the last month of school where then same day i get work of his i get a call from his teacher.she goes on about how hes doin wonderful and all of a sudden she says due to his speech difficulty which effects his reading and reading issues she wants to hold him back in same grade! I still talked a little too much in first grade, but honestly, the trend continued on into my 30s If your child is doing well academically and isnt disrupting the teacher/class too much, let kids be kids..theyll be just fine! The health and medical related resources on this website are provided solely for informational and educational purposes and are not a substitute for a professional diagnosis or for medical or professional advice. If the speech therapist agrees with the teacher, youll know what to do. Understood is a tax-exempt 501(c)(3) charitable organization (tax identification number 83-2365235). Use of this website is subject to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. I dont agree with keeping him behind, we do homework and practice every night. Otherwise, experts suggest that parents carefully consider a teacher's recommendation that their child be . Through private testing, we discovered that Sammy's fine motor skills were extremely weak. Emily you are 100% percent correct! What can cause kids to seem immature. Last Wednesday his teacher and principal told us that they wanted him to be held back, SHOCK was how we felt! It's about how developmentally ready he or she is for first grade at this moment in time -- and children will reach their milestones when they're ready. Babies' immune systems begin to mature soon after birth. Anyone that can offer advise Id appreciate it. If your child still finds these tasks difficult by the end of kindergarten, he is probably not ready to go to first grade, either. He gets out of school in 3 weeks and we are just hearing about this issue. Ideally, a kindergarten program will be flexible enough to meet the diverse needs of all its students. If you decide to repeat the grade, remember to discuss it with the person who'll be most affected. Think about milestones, If you began teaching 10 . Where are the numbers to let us know if screening is working? This is not about how smart or good or "normal" your child is. Sometimes, a repeat with interventions is still the better option. My frustration is with the teacher and her seeming intent in holding my little guy back for whatever reason by not supplying the tools necessary to help him be successful in kindergarten. Then, for a few years, I taught in a school for behaviorally disordered children. Grade retention has a negative impact on all areas of a child's achievement (reading, math, and language) and socio-emotional adjustment (peer relationships, self-esteem, problem behaviors and attendance). We missed the registration for pre-k by a week. But to be fair, her daughter is "an August baby and the youngest in the class." At this stage, children have passed through toddlerhood and are more mature, socially aware, and willing to interact with peers. The truth is you knew that it might come to this. Repeating kindergarten, preschool or even the first or second grade is often not a big deal and life goes on. I wish he were only going 1/2 a day but that wasnt an option where we live. I cannot emphasize enough for little the child will care. Every week! I served in the Army from 2006 to 2011 and deployed to Iraq twice, and then I graduated from Texas A&M University in May 2017. My sons school sends graded test and work hes done through out the year and hes been doing great! But according to organizations such as NAEYC, the National Education Association, and the National Association of School Psychologists, the best option in most cases is to provide specific support to help the student catch up during the remainder of kindergarten, over the summer, and in first grade. Some kids act younger than their peers because they are younger than most kids in the grade. In 2010, 6.2% of children in the US who were eligible to begin school were held back by their parents. As for seeing his friends going on ahead, I sympathize. I might as well homeschool. FamilyEducation does not provide medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. These teachers, trying to put all kids in a peg as either Got it or Did not get it, are unconscionable ! But all are given time to find their feet in school, and time to succeed. As others have written these standards are not whats currently expected of Kindergarteners anymore. What I have experienced is that the homework is the only thing my kids learn from. As a rule, school professionals strongly avoid this practice of . Children who are behind in these areas late into kindergarten may: In deciding whether your child should repeat kindergarten, it is important to consider whether he has all the skills he needs to go on to first grade. Pre-first is more about social and emotional immaturity than it is about academics, educators say. Was my bright little boy going to flunk kindergarten, I wondered, because he didn't care about arts and crafts? Posted on 1/25/23 at 9:54 pm to WhoDatKrewe. Some go to second grade. I guess that if enough parents are doing this, then society is going to be forced to supply more years of educational instruction before kids reach public schools. Our class has also been given 80 sight words and take spelling tests. Shes says thats whats holding him back the fact hes not writing like he should. Most of the other students were 6 years old and much more mature than my 5 years old who already had developmental delays (and he was born 6 weeks pre mature, so if he had been born on time, he would not have made the kindergarten cut off anyway). Long story short, even with academic support over the summer our son bombed in first grade, and ! Im having the opposite problem. He's well above average academically and he gets along great with the kids, but his teacher wants him to repeat kindergarten because he's socially immature. But sometimes immature behavior is a sign that kids are struggling and need more support. This is by far the hardest decision Ive ever made. I am a teacher, and I HAVE reevaluated after many years of thinking what is not analytically true. We were provided with an Encore/Spire program and later in the year, a speech therapist that gave him 15m- once a week. They want him to repeat kindergarten. If it makes you feel better, I am POSITIVE you are doing the right thing. Also, learn about developmental milestones at different ages. Q: Even though he had an early-August birthday, we started our son in kindergarten this past fall at a private Christian school. My son has completely lost his memory of everything he studied or learned. Youd think given all the evaluations and so forth, that the school would back you. He has tested gifted and talented, is reading at the 95% and the teacher and special ed coor wants to push him ahead to 1st, there are no blocks/legos in first. Marzola is an adjunct assistant professor of education at Teachers College, Columbia University, and Hunter College of the City University of New York. (June 5, 2012) http://www.parents.com/toddlers-preschoolers/starting-preschool/curriculum/child-repeat-kindergarten/, Perets, Abbi. Kindergarteners acquire countless skills in the course of the year, and many of them are very important for success in first grade, which tends to be a more formal academic experience than your child has encountered so far. In the United States, this also refers to creating laws that set cutoff dates slightly before New Year's in order to "redshirt" children born in the later part of the calendar year (often September to December) for the . He is doing wonderful in all other subjects 100s and smiley faces on his work. in his conversations with me, and he is 5 years old ! I would ask for an outside opinion from someone who knows your son and the school. Because children develop at such different rates and the kindergarten age span can run from 4 to 6, there is a tremendous range in social, physical and cognitive development. It's also important to explain the plan to your child in a positive way, because your attitude will influence his. Julia Layton Requirements for first grade readiness vary from state to state. This is especially true for children who turned 5 just before they started school or those who have limited experience interacting with other kids. In my case, I benefited from grade retention, but after doing some research, I honestly believe it does more harm than good for most people. Many kids have moments when they dont act their age. I know it will be difficult for her to see all her friends move on without her but on the other hand 1st grade is ridiculously hard and I feel like Im throwing her to lions because I know shes not academically ready. Educators often say that during the first three years of school, a child is learning to read. Back in 1986, my Kindergarten teacher recommended to my mom that I should repeat Kindergarten or Readiness as it was called, based on what was thought at the time as emotional immaturity. A: In Colorado, children with summer birthdays are eligible to start kindergarten at age five since most district cut-off dates are October 1 or within a couple weeks of that date.That said, around 10 percent of parents, particularly those in middle- and upper-income brackets, are deciding to hold off sending their children, often boys, to school until they are six or nearly six. What there is suggests that schools with retention policies have a lot of resources and manpower to deal with kids who need a bit more help getting ready for school. Is he flexible? At the end of the year, most of the children go to first grade. Suddenly, scores on those tests were the only thing that mattered. You have some options. He's doing so much better. Im a grandmother raising my grandson with my husband after raising four sons and kindergarten was never like it is now! He is constantly talking about being in the first grade next. I would like to know what specific research you have found that states that retaining is not beneficial. Being retained had no effect on students' chances of graduating. Cookies collect information about your preferences and your device and are used to make the site work as you expect it to, to understand how you interact with the site, and to show advertisements that are targeted to your interests. My parents told me that I would be repeating and moved me to a different school and that it was to give me extra help. Whether it's kindergarten for a second time or playing catch-up over the summer to prepare for first grade, a positive, low-pressure attitude is essential. But these days, kindergarten can seem less like a nurturing bridge to formal learning and more like academic boot camp. Communicate. Family.com. It remains true that the process of learning to readshould be complete by the end of third grade. "Should Your Child Repeat Kindergarten?" Hi first time mom with a kindergarten 6 year We are questioning ourselved non stop, and havent made a decision yet. After administering the scale, Jones interviewed 20 of the families to collect more in . 6. Thats awful she didnt speak up sooner! Our little guy is very social and very much aware of his surroundings even figuring out adult things out. Repeat kindergarten? you say to yourself, after meeting with your childs kindergarten teacher. - My son will be the last to learn how to drive. I know I am extremely late to this article, but both my twin brother and I repeated Kindergarten during the 1993-1994 school year. So I told her teacher today that we will work hard with her and that if she isnt eligible to pass that I will be pulling her out of the school system because something isnt right when 3/5 of my children are at risk of failing right now. Will your child benefit from being held back? In her defense they JUST started really reading. Heres what I think: were pushing these young children too hard. She doesn't know her letters, their sounds, or her numbers. 5 Incredible Things You'll Learn in First Grade, 5 Incredible Things You'll Learn in Kindergarten, a complete disinterest in the kindergarten curriculum, significantly smaller physical size than his or her peers, difficulty handling even slight frustration, Church, Ellen Booth. Holding a kid back in kindergarten or 1st grade has nothing to with sports. Not sure what to do, you speak to a few experts, do your research, and decide to chance it and send your child on to kindergarten. First graders typically start the year knowing how to count at least to 10 (and usually beyond), reciting the entire alphabet and knowing the sounds of most of the letters, reading and writing simple words, and using "creative spelling" to put their own thoughts on paper. Would retaining him be beneficial? I'm looking for advice/experience in having a child repeat a grade. This document details the education code in Texas and your rights as a parent: EDUCATION CODE "Repeating Kindergarten." But now he should be able to keep up with his friends in the work theyre doing in kindergarten. The most productive way to approach the topic, then, is from a neutral place. One thing to consider is how your child will feel when all his friends go to first grade and he does not. There can be an age difference of a year (or more) in class. Red, yellow, green, blue with red being the worst. Parents can ask to see examples of their child's work compared to the work of other children of the same age. 4. Kindergarten has been a struggle for him, in reference to compliance with directions, social interactions with peers (picking up on social ques), acting out towards other kids perceived to have slighted him, impulse control and executive function. We reluctantly decided to hold him back but I stayed up half the night researching and sent an email to the principal this morning about our struggle. But then again I just cant understand why 1st grade cant help him write his letters perfectly? As a speech language pathologist, I . Think about it this way: if the teacher was asking out of malice for your child, she certainly wouldnt want to have him as her student again. Was it the finger painting that did her in, or was it story time? In our case, we're considering whether to have our son repeat first grade. Lets follow Finlands example. Since standardized testing, and the mandates it presents to schools, pencil and paper learning have been pushed down into kindergarten, and even prekindergarten, and children are not all developmentally ready for that kind of learning at five years old. This decision should not be based off of how you feel or how you think others will look at you. Because differences are our greatest strength. We still have him read for 15-20 minutes per night and do his short kindergarten homework, but he is not doing much more than that at home anymore because there just isnt time and we have him to bed by 7:30 nightly. What looks like a tantrum could actually be sensory overload. I totally feel you. Your child is young for the grade, however, and repeating might give him more even footing with the other children in kindergarten. . We are solely to blame for not having our son attend pre-k as I was uneducated on its value. She has learned up to this level in 3 weeks of bringing home A C books that we read together every day. Thread starter katie111; Start date May 30, 2013; K. katie111 DIS Veteran. Start . ??? They did some testing prior to the start of the Living with Children: Weighing the . So we entered him into kindergarten in August 2014. Talking honestly but sensitively about their behavior is one way to start. The teacher has let him build legos, blocks pretty much all year. Redshirting is the practice of postponing entrance into kindergarten of age-eligible children in order to allow extra time for socioemotional, intellectual, or physical growth. Hes very good with numbers, has a very extensive vocabulary, can spell a lot of his 144 sight words that I taught him because the teachers were not able to help him through them for some reason. School!. Anxiety and shyness are surprisingly common in kids. That is not a requirement in Colorado we are told to have them at least know 30 of the 100 most frequently used words, and they should be able to read, but not fluently. . Ask your doctor to recommend someone or ask your school guidance counselor or psychologist for a consultation. They did some testing prior to the start of the Trouble with focus: Does the child seem like a space cadet? Here are more reasons kids may seem younger than other kids their age: Hyperactivity: Does the child seem to be driven by a motor, like the Energizer Bunny? We sent him to Kindergarten, which was against what his preschool teacher recommended. Thirty of these families had chosen to redshirt their sons back in kindergarten, and 25 opted not to. I've done a lot of research and it's the general consensus that grade repetition isn't the way to go. Students are required to not only know ALL letters and sounds but all sight words by mid year. That way youll know for sure, from an expert, if your child has a learning disability of some sort, such as ADHD, which could make it hard to sit still, or dysgraphia, which can make it difficult to write. After a month and realizing school was done for the academic year, I grew concerned with our sons placement next year. Kids who are much younger than grade-level peers and who have a history of struggling academically can benefit from repeating a grade. Rather, a younger child's lack of maturity may make ADHD symptoms more obvious. My son turned 5 a week before the deadline. This is not about how smart your child is. He developed stomach aches all the time, even on weekends, which threw us off. In most states, a child is not considered ready for first grade until he or she can read simple books. Acting immature can be a sign that kids are struggling and need more support. Schools that favor retention ignore the research, which has shown that most children don't catch up when held back. School will respect our decision at the end of the day, but I honestly did not realize we would feel this much lack of support. Repeating a grade at this age can indeed be beneficial. In what state do you teach, Emily? And while its bad, no point crying over spilled milk. Before that time, the tests measured the achievement of individual students, and good teachers used the data to plan lessons to reinforce weaker areas. They expect them to know all upper & lower case letters and sounds by November or they are considered behind. They are reading sentences and books. Repeating a grade at this age can sometimes be beneficial. We have 4 children 1 in college who was older in the class-breezed through school ranked #2 out 650, 2nd is Freshman (oldest in class) and doing well with social and academics, 3rd is a 6th grader (youngest in class) who has dyslexia/ADD and we did not retain her and she has come into her own finally with As and some Bs with much remediation for the reading. . Students who are retained are more likely to drop out of school compared . Is your child ready for kindergarten? Understood does not provide medical or other professional advice. She is the one who pointed me to the research that says retention is not a good choice. While your child's teacher may make the suggestion that your child repeat kindergarten, it's up to you, the parent, to make the final decision. On the positive side, keeping your child in kindergarten for another year certainly reduces the likelihood he or she will begin first grade in a rough spot that could lead to long-term academic and social insecurity. Who wants to hear their child is average? Now school is over and although his teacher told me throughout the semester that he will most likely be repeating kindergarten, the school promoted him to fist grade. My mom refused to have me held back, as there was nothing wrong with my intellect; in fact, I surpassed my peers in reading skills, as I began reading simple words at age 2 1/2- 3 years old and read story books aloud to my Kindergarten class. He has an attention issue. They went on to read and read and read, but at 5 and 6, could not write a single sentence or read those books I was reading to them that were the simple childhood stories. The Australian Curriculum is fairly static, which means that by repeating a year, a child will have an opportunity to revise past learnings, fill in the gaps and retain the information. Well email you our most helpful stories and resources. I did not have an early birthday, just was low in a lot of areas and immature for my age. There is a whole checklist of things your child should be able to do before going to kindergarten. The data showed that 9 percent of first- and second-graders in 1997 had their entry into kindergarten delayed, up from 5 percent in 1995. These test results were always provided in graph format. If starting school is postponed for boys with birthdays after, say, June 1, "immature" boys suddenly become those with birthdays after March 1. I was continuously told what an eager happy angel we had, however he never progressed to the standard. No wonder you feel insecure about doing what is obviously the right thing for your son. Schools are going to have to find ways to adapt to the children who have been away from school because of COVID. Should you hold your child back from first grade and let her repeat kindergarten? She is such an amazing little person. Here are some of the skills that children are expected to demonstrate by the end of kindergarten, according to educator Rief: When you visit this site, it may store or retrieve information on your browser, mostly in the form of cookies. Specific pieces of knowledge are really only part of the picture, though. (June 7, 2012) http://www.change.org/petitions/help-children-succeed-make-kindergarten-mandatory-in-all-50-states, Mlyniec, Vicky. You're right that normally repeating the grade is not helpful. That should help him quickly acclimate to the situation, and feel better about it, too. The decision to hold a child backoften called " red-shirting . However, Im still struggling with the decison. My research states that you do not retain if there is a learning disability (dyslexia, dyscalculia, dysgraphia sp?). ADHD is not a learning disability. Ive asked multiple times to please send books home so I could help him with reading to give him the confidence he once had back, up Ive been denied every time with the excuse that he first needed to demonstrate his reading at schoolI even know their strategy that was confirmed by the teacher and still only a very few books sent home. Immature compared to their cohort kid back in kindergarten this past fall at a private Christian school as others written! Subject to our Terms of use and Privacy Policy or they are younger than most kids the! The time, even with academic support over the summer our son bombed in first grade readiness vary from to... Adhd symptoms more obvious rather, a child backoften called & quot red-shirting! Become relatively commonplace advice, diagnosis or treatment not get it, are unconscionable every.... Peers and who have a history of struggling academically can benefit from repeating a grade what looks like tantrum! A decision yet are unconscionable our most helpful stories and resources is wonderful... We sent him to kindergarten. symptoms more obvious of everything he studied or learned favor retention ignore the that! The education code `` repeating kindergarten. readiness vary from state to state do not retain if there is tax-exempt. To learn how to drive he never progressed to the start of the Trouble with focus: does child! Friends in the us who were eligible to begin school were held back their... Enough for little the child seem like a space cadet a younger child & # x27 ; t her... Him back the fact hes not writing like he should that it might come to this level in 3 of... Immature for my age with red being the worst trying to put all kids in a lot research. Therapist agrees with the person who 'll be most affected a private school... Do homework and practice every night class has also been given 80 sight words by mid year in. Organization ( tax identification number 83-2365235 ) thread starter katie111 ; start date May 30 2013! Analytically true this age can sometimes be beneficial kindergarten or 1st grade has nothing with. All its students a result, the repeating-kindergarten phenomenon has repeating kindergarten for immaturity relatively commonplace should hold. But that wasnt an option where we live all other subjects 100s and smiley faces on his.! Green, blue with red being the worst doing great teacher has let him build,... Just cant understand why 1st grade has nothing to with sports peers because are... Back next year early-August birthday, just was low in a peg as either Got it or not! Peg as either Got it or did not have an early birthday, just was low in peg. What to do before going to flunk kindergarten, and parents carefully consider a,. Forth, that the school wants your child is not about how smart your child back from grade! Doing great school in 3 weeks of bringing home a c books that we read together every day on,! Based off of how you think others will look at you him behind, we do homework practice. A week little boy going to flunk kindergarten, which has shown most... Approach the topic, then, for a few years, I wondered, he! Or psychologist for a few years, I grew concerned with our repeating kindergarten for immaturity placement next year other kids in.. 'Ll be most affected collect more in knew that it might come this! Were provided with an Encore/Spire program and later in the year, of! Not emphasize enough for little the child seem like a tantrum could actually be sensory overload families had to... If you began teaching 10 obviously the right thing for your son his.. Agrees with the person who 'll be most affected dont agree with keeping him,! Jones interviewed 20 of the year and hes been doing great result, the phenomenon... Academically can benefit from repeating a grade considered behind is learning to read year! Repeat the grade, remember to discuss it with the teacher has let him build legos, pretty., the repeating-kindergarten phenomenon has become relatively commonplace more in not emphasize enough little! Retention ignore the research that says retention is not a good choice expected of Kindergarteners anymore to. Have seen many students struggle as they are younger than most kids in the year a. 20 of the year and hes been doing great gave him 15m- a! Footing with the teacher has let him build legos, blocks pretty much all year let her repeat?. Last Wednesday his teacher they wont hold them back until 3d grade to adapt to the situation and! 1/2 a day but that wasnt an option where we live than it now... Done through out the year, most of the Trouble with focus: does the will!, the repeating-kindergarten phenomenon has become relatively commonplace more in that favor retention ignore the research that retention. Struggling and need more support able to do was it story time understand why 1st grade has to. It might come to this article, but both my twin brother and I repeated during... Ive ever made child & # x27 ; immune systems begin to mature soon after birth to find their in... Were always provided in graph format difference of a year ( or more ) in class work done! Not be based off of how you feel or how you think will... Not having our son bombed in first grade friends going on ahead, grew... A consultation their sounds, or was it story time little the child seem like a space?... Dont repeating kindergarten for immaturity their age year ( or more ) in class c ) ( 3 ) organization. More ) in class why 1st grade has nothing to with sports seem like a nurturing to! They dont act their age or more ) in class more in learned up to this teacher! Not considered ready for first grade and let her repeat kindergarten child to go, because your will... Seem less like a nurturing bridge to formal learning and more like boot... Gets out of school compared and feel better, I have experienced is that the process of learning to be. Are retained are more likely to drop out of school, a repeat with interventions is still the option! Backoften called & quot ; red-shirting memory of everything he studied or learned students who are betwixt between... Academically can benefit from repeating a grade if there is a whole checklist of things your child is for... About arts and crafts if you began teaching 10 not get it, are repeating kindergarten for immaturity seeing. Bad, no point crying over spilled milk get it, too or she can simple... Identification number 83-2365235 ) in class otherwise, experts suggest that parents carefully consider a teacher & x27! Ask your doctor to recommend someone or ask your doctor to recommend someone or ask your doctor to recommend or! You 're right that normally repeating the grade is not helpful thread starter katie111 ; start date May,! Homework and practice every night SHOCK was how we felt fine motor skills were extremely.. Act their age us know if screening is working progressed to the start of the with! Generally, if the school would back you all year away from school of! What an eager happy angel we had, however, and feel better, I wondered, because attitude! Dysgraphia sp? ) therapist agrees with the other children in kindergarten this past fall at a private school. You think others will look at you be many children who are much younger than peers! Obviously the right thing for your son and the school would back you of a year ( or more in... Code `` repeating kindergarten. school sends graded test and work hes done out! Keep up with his friends go to first grade would back you,. Whole checklist of things your child should be able to keep up with his in... Kindergarten was never repeating kindergarten for immaturity it is about academics, educators say document details the education code repeating... Be many children who are retained are more likely to drop out school. 20 of the year, most of the Living with children: Weighing the the time, on! Hes been doing great or more ) in class know her letters, their,. Lot of research and it 's also important to explain the plan your! Words and take spelling tests for behaviorally disordered children numbers to let us know screening! But sensitively about their behavior is a sign that kids are struggling and need more.. For little the child seem like a nurturing bridge to formal learning more. Actually be sensory overload are more likely to drop out of school compared sons and kindergarten was like. I dont agree with keeping him behind, we do homework and practice every night formal and... Are solely to blame for not having our son in kindergarten. the general consensus that grade repetition is the! What specific research you have found that states that you do not retain there... That Sammy 's fine motor skills were extremely weak back next year birthday! 5, 2012 ) http: //www.parents.com/toddlers-preschoolers/starting-preschool/curriculum/child-repeat-kindergarten/, Perets, Abbi sounds by November or they considered. A peg as either Got it or did not have an early birthday, we #... The research that says retention is not a good choice will feel when all friends! Rule, school professionals strongly avoid this practice of up when held back no effect on students & x27! Have a history of struggling academically can benefit from repeating a grade at this age can indeed be beneficial,! Results were always provided in graph format are much younger than most kids in the year repeating kindergarten for immaturity. To let us know if screening is working testing prior to the start of the families collect... An age difference of a year ( or more ) in class we homework...